MS. FRANKENTHALER: Yes. But fortunately they took it, they came back. Joan Mitchell, Helen Frankenthaler, and Grace Hartigan at the opening of Frankenthaler's solo exhibition at the Tibor de Nagy Gallery, New York, February 12, 1957. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Things that are not overworked, that are in essence light. Born in New York City, her work was a. o. influenced by Jackson Pollock, with whom she also was involved in the 1946–1960 abstract art movement.. That is falt space on a flat surface. I mean I could do it but I really didn't feel like it. Outside, there were Art News, Arts Digest, The Times, and the Parsons Gallery, Janis, Kootz, Egan. I’d say his involvement then was with American-style Cubism; not so much Villon and Feininger as Max Weber. One must be oneself, whatever'. And were very, very close girlfriends, picked each other up for school every day and had our own language and we'd spend hours taking off --. In other words, where and how much to put the crescent-shaped black line. And there was no water; there was a swimming hole, and if you got a ride with the one or two people who had cars you made it there. At that time I thought, and never let anybody know, I guess because of the migraine, but I thought I had a brain tumor, and kept it to myself for two years. I think it looks just like Provincetown Bay but abstract. And for me, and I always say this, whether it's a Titian or a [Kenneth] Noland, the ones that come off work in that depth and the color perhaps it is divine and the thing that makes it work, but it is line color. Black, cadmium, orange. Clem probably said something like stay to meet him. Still Braque and Picasso? MS. ROSE: Good god, that was '36. MS. FRANKENTHALER: The New Gallery. MS. ROSE: Well what was it like as a kid? Los Angeles, CA (September, 2020) – Mixografia is pleased to present Helen Frankenthaler: A Certain Magic, featuring a series of editions created in collaboration with Helen Frankenthaler throughout 1989. And I hung up the phone finally and headed for the door, late for some place. Benita Manry, who was a painter, a sort of realistic-looking expressionist out of Hofmann. When I was ten I won the honorable mention, I still have the certificate, for the Saks Fifth Avenue cover of the annual talent show for children. MS. FRANKENTHALER: I don't know if Laboule was in that show or not. I was in very bad straits. Did you get the idea that way? MS. FRANKENTHALER: We went to galleries all the time. That had been passed. MS. FRANKENTHALER: He was either sullen and withdrawn and fairly, as I said, affable. That, if he pushed an idea about a picture you weren't aware of what he wanted you to think or say or how it the seminar should keep it going. Kind of plump, very jerky. I think, I have to look this up. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, I think as in anything involving work, experience, trial, error, accident, that suddenly there is an oeuvre and you read signs in it and then you either pick up or follow those signs or reject them and a strain or a sensibility or a wrist or an eye develops that becomes what a style is. But he would show how to make an apple look as if it were resting on the table. It's like, whatever's around. Quotes about Helen Frankenthaler  sorted chronologically, by date of the quotes about Helen Frankenthaler And the ones that go dead and static can’t be read that way; they don’t move. I’m much more apt to be surprised that pink and green within these shapes are doing something. When you’re making what you have to you’re totally involved in the act. HELEN FRANKENTHALER: Well, I said that over the years there have never been more than four or five people whose eyes I respect and in some way they do affect my work and sometimes even they don't, but I don't have a feeling that there are, even though there might be many people that liked or disliked my work from time to time, I don't feel that they're on the periphery watching me and affecting what I'm … He might have been there that summer but I only stayed at Black Mountain about --. MS. FRANKENTHALER: No. The barracks were unspeakable. But I am in my everyday life. In other words, you could certainly look at that picture and not see that at all. And plaster of Paris, that was it, you could smack up and then it dried in a print rather than drip down. He can't play anymore because he has this tachycardic, this cardiac thing. And we made a date for drinks. MS. FRANKENTHALER: The other thing, is this on, this thing? The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. MS. ROSE: Suppose he had one of your paintings? Marjorie and I, Marjorie is older than Gloria, were always much closer, even though for years I was the baby. There is a certain moment when one can look so pure that the result is emptiness—many readings of a work of art are eliminated and you are left with one note that may be real and pure but it’s only that, one shaft. I still wanted to see everything that was going on and being shown. He had a big effect on me, coming when he did. MS. FRANKENTHALER: And blocks can become lines, and drips become lines in a very facile, easy way. For which I am very grateful, and at the time never ever wanted, and always understood. Matisse. And she rejected him completely and went to the other camps. And I'm concerned with being myself, getting to know more and more what that is, what is possible, and what the real meaning of beauty and development is. MS. ROSE: Well, that was really Al and Grace, though, very much. MS. ROSE: It's a very American thing, though, to use what's [inaudible], and it's very anti-European, you know more [inaudible]. And he's an Australian. I mean in a severe attack I would just go to pieces. Helen Frankenthaler at Portland State: Q & A, 1972 - YouTube I worked there. And there I met Stamos and, oh, I don't know, somebody Carl Ward. Now available Gagosian Quarterly Summer 2019. MS. ROSE: In other words, listening to yourself. And then I can feel - well, this is all wrong, throw it out, open all that. View Helen Frankenthaler’s 2,360 artworks on artnet. Not [Hieronymus] Bosch [inaudible]. MS. FRANKENTHALER: No, not very much. MS. FRANKENTHALER: My early memories of going to the Pollocks were with Clem. What was it like? And the winter of '51 - '52 --. I mean in terms of art? So that while I was very interested in the push-pull because of Paul and Wallace Harrison, and all I was learning through Clem on my own, it was sort of axiomatic that that would seep in and be part of me without my taking up painting with a Hofmann criticism class. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, I understand what's meant when that word is used in relation to my pictures. Describe your relationship with Jackson. And people have often said that there seems to be so few materials around. And he's now seventy or so, probably. And that Pollock instead opened up what one's own inventiveness could take off from. So that there was a real dialectic and thrilling and really brilliant, actually. And my mother was, as he wanted her, totally involved in the children, ménage, and being his wife and the wife of a New York figure. And was one of the hundreds of people painting in that way. But the attempt and the result is often from what's around and is available that I can invent with. (Unknown). Like, what did you do? But I enjoyed knowing him. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Oh, my last year in high school, 15, 16. Helen Frankenthaler was born on December12, 1928 in New York City. MS. FRANKENTHALER: I had met him well one night when I had been teaching an adult education painting course at Great Neck that was run by a very good guy who got the whole Cooper ménage and I think the New Gallery or Stable [Gallery], a lot of people from those three galleries, to come out and teach. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Yeah. I mean he really was two different people. Or wildly blotto, drunk and a mess. Already [inaudible] Cubism, and you can just take off from there. MS. ROSE: What was his intellectual context? One must be oneself, whatever. A lot of bad stuff put in just because it was not up to great master level. But Bill de Kooning and Jackson [Pollock] were all around all the time. He said he was a baseball fan which surprised me very much. And I carried this screen over to this place as a divider between Friedl's studio and mine. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Oh, I don't know, maybe four or something. MS. ROSE: Did you ever use landscape as a point of departure? The one that the Modern just acquired was in it. That was a game which I used to play as a child which we were talking about yesterday that I loved. And nail polish is essentially enamel. Anyway, one of the winters I was reporting for Art [inaudible]. There are many accidents that are very rich that you use, but if you exploit a drip it's very boring and familiar to begin with. MS. FRANKENTHALER: No, in the fall of '52. Whatever, that you use it, and that's how, in a sense, the whole boundaries of art are pushed out. I was very young and it was sort of dreary. And you can [inaudible] filled or void centers. And by that I mean, if you push me further, I don't mean that I could paint something that had split up planes but I understood far beyond that about something black can be up close or can be miles away and the same size and the same density. I forgot what the name of the show was. MS. ROSE: Why did that occur to you? HELEN FRANKENTHALER: Egan, yes. MS. ROSE: Oh! What I decided, it was too much rent and too much space. They're totally different. Courtesy Helen Frankenthaler Foundation Archives, New York Frankenthaler struck up a romance with Clement Greenberg, considered the leading art critic of his time. And it was very exciting then because within one season I saw that '51 show of Jackson's [Pollock] at Betty Parsons, and that was in the early fall. MS. ROSE: Did you consciously do that? And I still have those someplace. I don't know, I'm getting too tired. And we had, along with all these reproductions you walked up [inaudible] and tacked up your own stuff. Were you aware of automatism of Surrealism at that time? Anyway, since I had met Grace and Al and that whole gang everybody went to Boyle's on Wednesdays [inaudible] so that I had already been sizing and priming huge bolts of duck. Helen Frankenthaler Let ’er Rip This episode focuses on Helen Frankenthaler (1928–2011). And it sort of laid an egg up there. Anyway, after a real exchange we went out and had a drink around the corner. I think that's a most fascinating and relevant and irrelevant subject. But it was 'cause it was my teacher and I was invited to it. And I was not a good athlete. I think because he interested Paul in relation to the weather thing. And when insecure terribly threatened. The first show I remember seeing was the Surrealist show at the [Metropolitan] Museum. What was he like? Pittura/Panorama: Paintings by Helen Frankenthaler, 1952–1992 marks the first time that Frankenthaler’s paintings have been exhibited in Venice since her inclusion in the 1966 Biennale as part of the US Pavilion. I knew that what I was making was not like in general the Gestalt feeling, emphasis, of what Al, Grace, and the others were doing. That is, I looked at and was influenced by both Pollock and de Kooning and eventually felt that there were many more possibilities for me out of the Pollock vocabulary. I said I might go, I don't know, I had other things to do, we weren't close any more. And then I called Clem because I had along with many other people, Sonya [Rudikoff] and others, always read PR [Partisian Review]. But these colors were the expedient things to use for the way I drew and I say "draw" not meaning line, though it might have included line. And then one that is clearly a nude [Nude, 1958], I mean anybody who knows pink and breast shape, the feeling of body being seen. And it was opening night at Castelli's [Gallery] of a group show of paintings that Castelli didn't show. Fortunately I had some income because my father died and I didn't have to work, and just painted and looked at pictures and had a life with Clem and my friends. The party was over. But in sequence, I didn't paint new long canvases until I had seen his and I'm sure that Pollock's ambience affected me tremendously. MS. ROSE: Well, what kind of qualities did you like? And my family, I mean my parents since I was a third daughter and I was probably loaded with both real love and real joy thought I was the most wonderful, gifted, complicated, hopeful creature in the world. Before Dalton I went to Brearley, as academic as Dalton was progressive. And, you know, there was this show with the deputy mayor to give me the certificate, typical high school, elementary school deal. I don’t think Newman is “landscape” or Noland, although when you think of vast open spaces one tends to think in landscapes, not emptiness. And then look again Sunday. And his school was, it was either that or Hofmann's. When I say gesture, my gesture, I mean what my mark is I think there is something now I am still working out in paint; it is a struggle for me to both discard and retain what is gestural and personal, “Signature”. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, certainly Piero [della Francesca], Dello [di Niccolo Delli]. Well, I always use this word and I'm always dissatisfied with it because it's not what I mean at all, but a surreal side. And Wallace was crazy about Lipchitz drawings in pencil, very chiaroscuro, figurative but abstract, small drawings. It had nothing to do with art at all. Everything interested him. Joining host Helen Molesworth are artist Rodney McMillian and art historian Alexander Nemerov. And I was suddenly blinded as if he had put me in the center ring of Madison Square Garden. I had lost my father. From the description of Helen Frankenthaler interview, 1969. And what he didn't understand was that that I didn't want the Bay that much in perspective. I had looked at Cezanne, I mean [inaudible], five Card Players in a room, the heavy one, but I think now [inaudible]. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Friedl and I were about the only ones. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Yes, I met him at the show. [Laughter]. Or for the world? But I had been drawing them with color. Everyone got plastered. And I think that's a whole load of other subjects and a fascinating one because a title has to have a meaning, and how much meaning do they have, should they have, do they really have, where do they come from. It was more of an attitude. We Didn’t Have a Chance to Say Goodbye By Sabrina Orah Mark January 14, 2021. Joining host Helen Molesworth are artist Rodney McMillian and art historian Alexander Nemerov. MS. ROSE: When did you see the Rubens sketches? But I think I was heading towards that need to make something that eventually had to be made by being put on the floor. Yes. And the period between ten and fourteen I was really a wreck. But generally, while I can recognize a master piece that is heavily painted or darkly painted or painted in layers as great and sublime, it would not be my choice to hang a [inaudible] for five years if I could instead perhaps have a Cezanne of the kind I just described. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, it was our Saturday ritual and habit. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Yes, but without any connection. MS. ROSE: Did you spend much time alone as a child? I was then very involved through the beginning of December. MS. ROSE: Well, Pollock didn't put sizing on either. MS. ROSE: Well I know that newspaper headline that you showed me when you were born. But one is "lyrical" and the other is "surreal.'. The second winter, I only had three because I did it in three years, I went to Boston [Massachusetts] and took a job on the Cambridge Courier which was the newspaper and I was, that was when something called prime newsprint came out, it's still run that way, it's the council of government in Cambridge. [Inaudible.]. I had to quit, and I was in bed for days. MS. FRANKENTHALER: He thought I was pretty good. I looked hard at Marin but I didn't have any of the feeling for him that I had for Kandinsky. There was a lot of noise in the background because the game was on. MS. FRANKENTHALER: For the painter? MS. ROSE: Tell me about Paul Feeley who was tremendously important. It was her foray into woodcut printmaking with ULAE, Kenneth Tyler, and a traditional studio in Kyoto selected by Kathan Brown of Crown Point Press, which contributed toward the artist's passion about the medium. MS. ROSE: Do you think that Clem had much of an influence on Pollock? 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